Roms, Emulation, and Nintendo

[retro junkie]

In light of Nintendo's present activities, I would like to discuss this matter from a different perspective. I have read so many boohoo snot slinging reactions this week. I will admit that many years ago, I know it has been over twenty, I did attempt some emulation. It did not satisfy or keep me interested. If anyone knows me well they know I love being able to hold the physical cart in my hand and push it down into the real, or clone, machine. Chasing down a copy, scraping the money together and bringing it home, is just part of the experience for me. Not much into digital copies of games, but, time to time, I have purchased old Gameboy games on my DS and 3DS from Nintendo's store. I still search ebay for a bargain on old cart SNES, Gameboy, GBA, DS, and Sega Genesis games.

With that being said,

After all these years of emulation, rom downloads, suddenly Nintendo comes out like a bear and a lion trampling down the free rom sites beneath their feet.

What motivated, or prompted this sudden move? Why now? Why throw cash out at something like this at this time?

Did they finally realize with the release of the minis that there is gold in those old games? It is odd that this happens after the reaction of gamers toward the mini sales and its success. They have hesitated for some reason in the retro gaming access concerning the Switch.

Are they about to launch something for the Switch and in order for it to be successful they need to clean house? Or are they, after all these years, finally woke up to protect their properties?

Are there any thoughts on this? Has anyone heard or contemplated what Nintendo is up to?

[mastermario]

Seems like a waste of time and a losing battle to me. There's no way they're going to be able to put a stop to it so their best bet is to focus more resources on the NES ans SNES-classic type consoles with more and better content. 

I'm with you, I've screwed around with PC emulators and roms and I just couldn't get that much into it. The only one I've really played heavily is Phantasy Star Online Blue Burst (I played PSO episode 1 and 2 on Gamecube) and that is because some people have remade it on the PC and have created pretty good online servers out of it.

I'll also put some N64 or SNES roms on my phone to play on work trips, but I don't feel like that would take away from any real physical device that Nintendo could manufacture. It's finicky and hard to play. If Nintendo could put these games on the Switch or onto another device, I'd spring for that right away. But it'd have to be affordable.

[CreepinDeth]

I highly disagree with Nintendo on this and it has made me stop supporting them. I'm just going to leave it at that.

[Grindspine]

I have an NES Classic and SNES Classic, mostly because I had rented many games back around 1990, but not bought some of them that I really enjoyed.

That being said, the nostalgia wears off quickly, much like with my barely played Sonic Mega Collection PS2 title.  On top of the nostalgia being quite temporary, the lack of production made both very hard to get.

At this point, since the original Xbox is not supported, I have considered if it would be worth modifying.

[retro junkie]

So far the general feeling is that the older games should have some type of preservation, in some form, with easy accessibility. We are placing games in the same classification as literature and art, having historical value.
This situation sparked some discussion in my home. My Daughter felt that if Nintendo was going to pursue this route then they should provide an alternative.
Lets face it, there were a lot old good computer games released on floppies and cassette tape. That medium has probably reached the end of its life span. Unless those games are preserved in digital form, there will be a great loss. Being able to experience those games raises questions on accessibility. Also who should be able to preserve those games. There are many old arcade games that fall under this need also.

We are not necessarily talking about nostalgia. There are many games from different time periods that are just simple fun. Some genre are not even made anymore, like for example the "text based." (I understand okay?) But you know what I am saying. Telltale comes very close to some of those old computer type games from the 386 and 486 days. Not that I would want to see those games take a place on the modern hardware necessarily, it is just that it would fill a need for many gamers to experience many things from those time periods. Some might, I am sure, would find a new love for certain genres that they never knew existed.

I can't imagine not being able to play my R-Type, Nemesis, Gradius 3, Darius Twin, Parodius, and many other shooters. But at some point even the carts along with their systems will give out and die, perish the thought. But it will happen. Hopefully not in my lifetime.

It seems that no one wants to offer a real solution to this need. Everyone in the industry has the attitude of, "play our new hardware" forget that old stuff. Here we'll  throw you a bone, maybe that will pacify those noisy gamers.

Maybe Nintendo is saying stop playing that stuff, purchase our new Switch gaming system.

What would have happened to these old games if there was no internet?

I think we need more companies like Retro-Bit to put out those multi plug and play systems. Let the minis continue to be made. If that is a solution for now.

[BLUEVOODU]

I used to be pretty against Roms/Emulation - more from the business aspect... but also legal aspect.  I figured at some point, they would start to crack down hard on these activities.  They were cracking down on them in the early 2000's... and rightfully so.  I've created things in the past, had them stolen, and that sucks.  It doesn't matter if it's ideas at work, project plans, something patented... etc.  On the flip side of the coin, many corporations have stolen things from people and that is not ok as well.

I agree with @mastermario in that it's going to be hard (if not impossible) to stop them all.

The problem I have with 1st party companies - such as Nintendo - offering up their digital games is they are generally not at a discount.  It is really cool when HD remakes come out, introduce trophies, and add to the original aspects of the game.  There still should be  an archive of the original games... like music as well.  For example, Megadeth has a remastered version of their Rust in Piece album.  Cool stuff... sounds good.  But some musical parts have changed from the original CDs.  You cannot buy these originals in MP3 form from Amazon and other online businesses... so those versions get lost in translation.   I have the original physical copies... so there are originals in my possession.  It would be cool if they could figure out a way to create a "gaming repository" and you pay monthly or whatever to gain access to this repository.  The repository has all original classics for a system and you can play them whenever.  That would be cool IMO.  So you would buy the Sega Saturn Repository and get all Sega Saturn games.. or Nintendo 64... or Super Nintendo.  It would be very hard to have all 3rd companies agree to this though.

[targetrasp]

If the overwhelming success of the nes and snes classics weren't proof that emulation of the older stuff has little to no effect on Nintendo's ability to make money off their old library then someone isn't listening.

It wouldn't matter if I did or did have every one of those games either on a physical cart or emulated, I still would have purchased the classic machines... matter of fact I bought two of each. It's insane to think Nintendo would waste resources chasing down rom hosting sites when all they've managed to acomplish is to keep the interest in the classic games alive, and playable on newer televisions. I'd venture to say Nintendo has killed off a free source of advertisement, exposing a generation of gamers to something they most likely would have never seen.

[CreepinDeth]

The problem I have with 1st party companies - such as Nintendo - offering up their digital games is they are generally not at a discount.  It is really cool when HD remakes come out, introduce trophies, and add to the original aspects of the game.  There still should be  an archive of the original games... like music as well.  For example, Megadeth has a remastered version of their Rust in Piece album.  Cool stuff... sounds good.  But some musical parts have changed from the original CDs.  You cannot buy these originals in MP3 form from Amazon and other online businesses... so those versions get lost in translation.   I have the original physical copies... so there are originals in my possession.  It would be cool if they could figure out a way to create a "gaming repository" and you pay monthly or whatever to gain access to this repository.  The repository has all original classics for a system and you can play them whenever.  That would be cool IMO.  So you would buy the Sega Saturn Repository and get all Sega Saturn games.. or Nintendo 64... or Super Nintendo.  It would be very hard to have all 3rd companies agree to this though.

That's pretty much my stance on it. If these aren't going to be available to play somewhere for a price, then they need to be archived at the very least so that we don't lose out on the history. Technology breaks down eventually. Carts will eventually oxidize and have issues with their contacts. CDs will start to get bit rot (Dreamcast games are especially susceptible to this. Those needs to be archived.) Even the consoles will eventually die out. Fortunately, there are companies making clones so that the original medium can be played but those can get expensive as well. Especially if you want something that's accurate in its emulation.

[BLUEVOODU]

@CreepinDeth it is interesting... on Amazon prime and other music services, you won't be able to find the original Megadeth Rust in Piece CD.  You can only seem to buy the Digital Remastered...and there are some parts with significant sound changes.  Some of the parts, I like the original better by far.  There are some other parts where I thought they need updating.

In the same case... Video Games.  It would be really cool if Nintendo would offer a consistent services.  Here's what I mean.. I bought a bunch of Virtual Console games on the Wii.  I realllllly wish I could use them through the switch.  Maybe I can?  I didn't think so... but I feel I should be able to because I paid decent money back in the day to get those.  It would be cool for there to be a vault of some sort - and to ward off Rot as you mentioned, creepin.

It would also be cool for many of those games to be updated and playable online.  For example, many of the old NES games... you could play 2 player coop online, or play against other people.  Super Nintendo F-Zero... same thing.  That would be cool.  Not sure how long it would last or the type of traffic it would receive.. but that would be cool.  This is a bit outside the discussion of this topic though.

[targetrasp]

you better download all those vc games onto something, starting jan 2019 there's no vc or Netflix on wii

[CreepinDeth]

@BLUEVOODU - Ozzy did this back in the early '00's too, or at least, his management did. Don't ever buy his '80's remastered albums released during that time since they replaced the bassist and drummer due to writing credits/royalties. They eventually came to their senses and they released the albums as they originally were. Not sure why Mustaine would want to do this, it never made sense to me.

As for games, looks like Nintendo just won their lawsuit in these cases and has been awarded "$12 million". They won't ever get that back since they sued a married couple and they more than likely don't have that amount of money but it's a thing. I'm just shaking my head at all of this and makes me dislike Nintendo even more.

[targetrasp]

I just realized I hadn't listen to Countdown to Extinction or Rust in Peace in a good 20 years, so I started digging through my old CDs. Rust in Peace was no where to be found and Countdown was trashed, so YouTube!


This created a trip down the metal rabbit hole, Megadeth, Pantera, Judas Priest, Death, King Diamond, and Iron Maiden, to name a few. I got back and revisit the 80's and 90's often but the 80's is always the awesome pop music (yeah I can't believe I just said awesome and pop music together either) and the 90s for the grungy Seattle sounding stuff. Classic Metal just doesn't get the recognition it deserves. Except for the overrated crap known as Metallica...


Don't crucify me... Metallica was good but Lars ruined it for me when he led the charge against Napster. Now it seems Nintendo is pulling a Lars (haha steered it back on topic) and as much as I love Nintendo I hate what they're trying to do. I've seriously hated Metallica since their part in the downfall of Napster, similar could happen with Nintendo.

[CreepinDeth]

This created a trip down the metal rabbit hole, Megadeth, Pantera, Judas Priest, Death, King Diamond, and Iron Maiden, to name a few. I got back and revisit the 80's and 90's often but the 80's is always the awesome pop music (yeah I can't believe I just said awesome and pop music together either) and the 90s for the grungy Seattle sounding stuff. Classic Metal just doesn't get the recognition it deserves.

We need a metal thread asap!

Don't crucify me...

Too late, you're dead to me. 

Metallica was good but Lars ruined it for me when he led the charge against Napster. Now it seems Nintendo is pulling a Lars (haha steered it back on topic) and as much as I love Nintendo I hate what they're trying to do. I've seriously hated Metallica since their part in the downfall of Napster, similar could happen with Nintendo.

I think the difference between now and then is that Metallica wasn't about limiting availability. Their music was still widely available to purchase, it was more about how much was their art worth to you and how much it was worth to them. You could argue that if it wasn't for that case, we probably wouldn't have the streaming boom we do now and make things better for artists in today.

In Nintendo's case, they want to completely limit where and how you play these older games that you can't easily play anymore without jumping through hoops anyways.

[targetrasp]

@CreepinDeth - I've been thinking over how to start the Metal thread for the last 20 minutes, during which time YouTube slowly progressed from Mega Deth to Primus... it's a big jump for 20 minutes but it was a nice little trip over songs I'd completely forgotten about. Jesus Built My Hotrod will now be in heavy rotation in my garage play list... It also brought up some crazy questions like does dire straits use the f word for gay in their money for nothing video??? and why does almost no one use a talk box?


And just like that we're back off topic, much like my post. It just goes to illustrate my attempt at a point that maybe someone else should start said topic COUGH COUGH @BLUEVOODU @CreepinDeth @Grindspine My youtube and my mind is meandering

[BLUEVOODU]

you better download all those vc games onto something, starting jan 2019 there's no vc or Netflix on wii

Ugh... we need a thread for this too.  Really?  Why can't they just magically import them or make them work on the Switch.  Now I need to figure out what to do.  Thank you for telling me @targetrasp

@CreepinDeth Yeah... I totally remember this happening with Black Sabbath and Ozzy Albums.  I Was glad to buy the remastered version... but not at the cost of losing the original recordings.  I have them all and in good condition.  In fact, I bought a really cool small Megadeth boxset in Germany.  I also bought @Grindspine a rare Napalm Death CD over there... if I remember correctly... or was that something else Grinspine?  Maybe I bought me the Napalm Death and he the Dimmu borger (Spelling?)

We need a metal thread asap!

OK.. Metal Thread - let's start It up! lol.  Do eet... do eet now!  Megadeth - Hanger 18!

Metallica... I love their old stuff... but they lost it at Load.  They Lost it hard... It's sad to say... but honestly, they may have just been burnt out of everything as well.  Others will say they lost it at the Black Album.  IDK... there are some really good songs on the black album.

I didn't realize Nintendo won a Lawsuit... that's another topic we need... that would be a great topic.

^ Now that's a lot of on and off topic ^ lol 

[targetrasp]

For those keeping a count .. We've got 6 (5 of which are completely off unrelated) viable topics we can make of this thread.


Wii discontinuing online functionality
Metal Topic
Difference in original and remastered (fighting urge to mention star wars...)
box sets
Lars ruined Metallica (attempting to incite a riot)

lawsuit (topic adjacent)

I mention this because I tend to jump off topic rather suddenly with the loosest of segues and am banking this example including two of our charter members so when we do get busy and I get called out for it, eh screw it I'm already somewhere else!

[BLUEVOODU]

LOL... ok .... so let's split these new topics up.

@targetrasp , @CreepinDeth , @Grindspine and @Jack Care to help?  I'll work on creating 1-2... or creating other new topics as well.

Wii discontinuing online functionality   
Metal Topic   
Difference in original and remastered (fighting urge to mention star wars...)
box sets
Lars ruined Metallica (attempting to incite a riot)
lawsuit (topic adjacent)


COMING back to topic LOL... it would be cool to have a unified service to host all the games in 1 place.  I Wonder if Sony, Nintendo, and all other companies would agree to do something like that.  UGh... that's yet another good topic.

[BLUEVOODU]

Don't let BV do it all LOL 
The Chickendinnergaming.com Metal Thread!